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  • ghost
    07-17 11:00 AM

    We, members of IV who are on H-1B visas, can bring our spouses and children with full rights to travel. Family members are NOT counted in the quota for H-1B. Spouses cannot work as their status is dependent (H-4).

    Our agenda is to resolve the Green Card Queue. People are waiting in the queue since 2001. The current status of queue can be found at: (Look under the employment based numbers)

    We do not mind waiting in the queue until we get the Green Card. The problem is that the Green Card process is currently Employer-Centric. In the sense, once the GC process is initiated (Let's say Microsoft), the employee has to stick with Microsoft until the Green Card is approved.

    Even worse, we cannot get an official promotion during the wait as this will result in starting the GC process from scratch and inadvertantly sends their application to the end of the queue. Imagine Skilled Labor (people with BS, MS and PhD degrees in Science and Math) who are waiting in the queue for more than 5 years with out an official promotion and at employer's mercy.

    The employer precisely knows that the employee is stuck with their firm until they get their GC and they can conveniently ignore our professional growth (pay raise, promotion, etc). Make no mistake:rolleyes: , on the record they always sympathize our plight but they will not do anything about it. They always want more H-1B numbers but not GC numbers. Talk about employer exploitation.

    IV wants to make the GC process employee-centric so that the employers do not exploit the skilled labor.

    The problem of mis-match between H-1B numbers and GC numbers is created because of the disconnect between two programs. H-1B numbers do not have country limits where as GC numbers have a country limit.

    For example, let's assume that out of the current 65000 H-1B visas, 25000 are from India and 25000 are from China (First come first served basis) and the remaining 15000 are from the Rest of the World. However, the GC numbers have a country limit: 10000 for India, 10000 for China, etc. This results in a queue that will only increase with more H-1B numbers and a disconnected GC program.

    IV members are not against H-1B program (we are here on this program) but at the same time the H-1B increase is not our agenda (we leave it to the exploitant employers who lobby for it). We want to make the GC process employee-centric so as to stop the employer-exploitation and not hinder our professional growth.

    I am not aware of AFL-CIO/Programmers Guild agenda but my understanding was that they want to completely shut-down the H-1B program instead of reforming it. The bottom line is there aren't enough American Citizens who have advanced science and math degrees. So, we need a H-1B program. How to make this program more effective and less exploitative is debatable.

    This thread is very interesting to me. I've kind of lived though both sides, and it is really aweful for everyone but the abusive employer.

    My understanding of Immigration Voice's agenda is that this group is really for people who have H1B visas and are in the country already to bring their spouses and children here with full rights to travel and work, make sure renewals of H1Bs happen so you can stay in the country, and, even better, to convert H1B visas to green cards.

    My understanding is that the only reason that Immigration Voice supports increased H1B visa numbers is because people whose current visas are about to expire, and family members, are counted in these same numbers.

    Please correct if I'm wrong. I really would like to get this right.

    Anyway, if I do have it right, it seems to me that the AFL-CIO position (give people green cards instead of H1B visas) bridges the core concerns of members of Immigration Voice and the Programmers Guild. Whether or not everybody recognizes this is a different story, but it is good to know where the overlapping concern is, and hopefully in long term, get people talking about a solution that really does try to bridge the gap.

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  • nojoke
    01-04 04:22 PM
    Your leaps from me to Pakistan, and vice versa, are getting annoying now. You talk about what my views on Dawood Ibrahim are in one sentence, and in the next you conclude that that shows something on the part of Pakistan.

    Now, for the last time, I personally think that it would be beneficial for Pakistan to investigate and get to the bottom of the Bombay incident, and use it as an opportunity to further build public opinion in Pakistan against the militants and the jihadists. (Sadly, I don't see that happening.) The perpetrators of Bombay should be tried for treason for attempting to start a war with India. To me, that is more important, than Masood Azhar, and Dawood Ebrahim, and the past.

    Again, that is my personal opinion on what is important. You are more than welcome to disagree with it. But don't suggest that what I think proves something about official Pakistani policy.

    See you go round in circles. You ask specifics, when cornered you move away from specifics. How many times do we need to start again? No body is going to be caught and there is going to be another attack in India and then the Bombay will become the past and we need to forget the past and we have to start all over again. There has been plenty of 'opportunities' in the past and they all ended in the same way. There will opportunities in the future and they will end the same way. There is only one way the opportunities can be meaningful - 'stop pretending to be sleeping'.

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  • alisa
    12-27 12:50 AM
    We need to send that message clearly and forcibly to the world. The Clear message is " Nukes dont impact our options. The decision to go to war or not is not impacted by the presence or absence of nukes"

    Why do you want to involve the world in a matter between Pakistan and India?
    I see what you are saying. But I don't think I agree with you.
    The world probably doesn't give much of a damn about it. At the end of the day, a few million nuked and dead Pakistanis and Indians are not going to be the West's headache. They will be the headache for India and Pakistan. So, nukes DO impact the options.

    As to your second question, you never know. To be honest, I dont know...Musharraf started Kargil and they did not acknowledge even dead Pakistan soldiers. Sharif went to US and pleaded Clinton to stop the war.

    I do believe ISI's footprint is there. ISI is built on the image of CIA during cold war. They are a pretty powerful bunch with one complete victory ( against Soviets) and two successful (atleast so far) distruptive operations in Afghanistan and Kashmir. Without the big brother ISI watching, these jihadists can not move around. But I do give the benefit of doubt to Zardari's govt. The poor guy has just lost his wife. He might not have signed off on this ops.
    Thanks for your honesty.
    There was an entire non-state machinery that was built to fight the Soviets and to fight India. But the problem is, you can't dismantle it instantly.
    And this machinery is now fighting against the government in Pakistan. Remember Benazir's assassination this time last year? Do you recall the multiple assassination attempts on Musharraf? And officers of the army were behind those.

    So, if ISI is behind Bombay, I struggle to understand what it would gain from provoking India.

    The 'machinery''s motives I can understand. They are being pursued by Pakistan army and NATO forces, and by provoking India and starting a conflict on the eastern border, they would divert Pakistan army and get some relief. Plus, the more chaos in Pakistan, the better it is for them.

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  • abcdgc
    12-27 01:17 AM
    You are right about the lack of governance in Pakistan. And that there are more personalities and less institutions.
    But I think you are wrong about Kayani. I haven't seen any reports about any intelligence agencies pointing fingers at Kayani. So, I am curious if you could provide any links. It sounds like a conspiracy theory otherwise.

    Let me give you a proof about Kayani, not that you will agree with it, but I will give it a shot anyways.

    Pakistan PM agreed to send ISI DG to India when he spoke with Indian PM. Later Zardari also publicly agreed to send ISI DG. Next day the three i.e. Gilani, Zardari and Kaayani had a meeting. After the meeting Pakistan announced that Pakistan will not send ISI DG to India. Now, if Gilani and Zardari agreed to send ISI DG, why the conclusion of the meeting was with the decision that ISI DG will not go to India. It was the starting point of escalation. Who triggered it? Kaayani. This is a well covered report. The point is, if sending ISI DG could deescalate the situation, and if India is asking to send ISI DG, why would Pakistan not send ISI DG even after PM and President agreed sending Pasha to India? Kaayani was himself ISI chief when Musharraf was President/Army Chief. The point is Hamid Gul, Kaayni and Pasha are all same group of cheats.


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  • thatwillbeit
    10-03 12:36 PM
    Excellent post dtekkedil

    You reiterate exactly what I have in my mind

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  • nojoke
    05-04 02:13 PM
    House...forget it......

    It will never reach those highs again...

    In US..RE is done.

    Not 485...look at the number of foreclosures.....and inflation.....

    untill the war is over...forget...

    I saw a news article that says Bangalore real estate is down 20% this year. And another one that says Delhi is down 20%. What happened in India is also a part ponzi scheme. All the NRIs buying at whatever prices. How can any local guy afford at those prices:confused: Unless inflation goes sky high and wages multiplying to catch up with the inflation.
    If I buy a flat in Bangalore at 50 lakhs and expect 15 thousand for the rent, it comes to 2 lakhs approx. a year return. If I do a fixed deposit in the bank at 10% interest, I get 5 lakhs return. I can rent for 15 thousand and invest the 3 lakhs back into a fixed deposit. Over the years, flats depriciate and in 20-25 years it will be close to valued at nothing. Where as a wise investment in the bank would have multiplyied by 4 times. :(


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  • Macaca
    12-30 06:26 PM
    Select Readings

    Alessandrini, Michele and Tullio Buccellato (2008), �China, India and Russia: Economic reforms, structural change and regional disparities,� Economics Working Paper No.97, December 2008, London: Centre for the Study of Economic and Social Change in Europe, 33 pp.
    Hoffmann, Steven A (1990), India and the China Crisis, Berkeley: University of California Press, 324 pp.
    Malone, David M. and Rohan Mukherjee (2010), �India and China: Conflict and
    Cooperation,� Survival, vol.52: 1, pp. 137-158.
    Bajpaee, Chietigj (2007),�The Panda and the Peacock,� China Security, vol. 3 no. 4 Autumn 2007, pp. 103 � 123.

    Asian Development Bank (2010), Key Indicators for Asia and the Pacific 2010, �The Rise of Asia�s Middle Class,� 41st Edition, 2010, Philippines: Asian Development Bank, August 2010, 283 pp.
    Pew Global Attitudes Project (2010) (http:/ / 2010.pdf), Indians See Threat From Pakistan, Extremist Groups, Released: Wednesday, October 20, 2010; Accessed online 12 December 2010
    The Chinese Central Government�s Official Web Portal (; Accessed online 16-20 December 2010

    �Chinese premier calls for enhanced cooperation, trade with India (http://�

    �China-India friendship,� Chinese premier tells teenagers in India with calligraphy (�
    Ministry of External Affairs (

    Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the People�s Republic of China (

    �We�ll be able to reach strategic consensus, says Wen (http://,� Hindustan Times
    �Prime Minister and Wen to talk trade, stir sticky issues (,� Hindustan Times

    �India, China developing relationship of substance: Indian ambassador (http://,� Xinhua News

    �Jiabao�s visit to focus on strengthening Indo-China trade (http://,� CNBC
    �Has Chinese premier�s visit strengthened India-China bonds? (http://,� CNBC
    �China-India ties fragile, need special care: Chinese envoy (http://,� The Times of India
    �RCom to raise $1.9 bn from China bank ( tech/news/telecom/RCom-to-raise-19-bn-from-China-bank/articleshow/ 7106651.cms),� The Times of India
    �India, China cement ties with 49 pacts (,� Financial Express
    �China�s domestic demand push boon for Indian exporters (http://,� Financial Express
    �Indian drug firms look to scale the Great Wall (http://,� Financial Express
    �Pact on financial services likely to open doors for Chinese banks (http://,� Financial Express
    �India, China May Sign Banking Accord During Wen Jiabao�s Visit (http://,� Bloomberg
    �Shanghai Halts Fixed-Asset Lending through Year End ( article/SB10001424052748703929404576022550653865350.html), � The Wall Street Journal
    �PBOC Officials: Interest Rate Hike Could Hamper Economic Soft Landing (http:/ /,� The Wall Street Journal
    �Foreign Ministers should look into pending issues: Wen (http://,�
    �Officials should sort out stapled visa issue: Wen ( news/national/article956256.ece),� The Hindu
    �Muslim women lead protests in restive west China (http://,� MSNBC
    �China�s Galloping Inflation ( gordonchang/2010/12/12/chinas-galloping-inflation/),� Gordon G. Chang | Forbes,
    �Business interests further Sino-Indian ties ( foreign-view/2010-12/603015.html),� GlobalTimes

    �Al Qaeda urges Uighur jihad in China. So what? ( World/Global-News/2009/1008/al-qaeda-urges-uighur-jihad-in-china-so-what),�

    �The story of Chinese monetary sterilization ( 12/20215815/The-story-of-Chinese-monetary.html),�
    �Chinese banks scaling back loans to ship owners, yards (,4574,417590- 1292443140,00.html?),� December 15, 2010,

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  • VivekAhuja
    06-23 12:23 PM
    If you are buying a house as an investment ONLY, then do NOT buy a house on this planet (not just USA). If you are sensible enough, buy a house to LIVE IN. Buy something you like, not something just to sell and make money.
    If you begin to think like this, you will come to a simple conclusion - if my family & I like a particular house in a particular neighbourhood and I can afford it, I will buy it NOW!!

    Everything else you hear in the media and on IV is hogwash - ignore it!!


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  • alisa
    12-27 12:55 AM
    You are from Pakistan, you tell why you are doing this. Why are you asking us to explain your actions?

    Thats a bit like asking one's father to explain the actions of Josef Fritzl.

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  • mariner5555
    04-17 07:31 PM
    I also thought that pitching in the home buying by GC folks would make a great argument in front of law makers. But there was a very sensible posting by our spokes person Mark B.

    He said, he would not put home buying by GC folks as a main selling point for our cause. May be he will say this point as a half joke-half serious manner while discussing our core selling point. The core selling point being that the US is loosing talent by not giving us GCs in a timely manner.
    I agree cannot be used as the main point. but everywhere (even here) .money (or economic issues in this case) talks.
    also, when you use current issues to link to the immi cause then there is a better chance of selling it.
    for eg - during Y2K ..nobody complained when immigrants were flocking here.
    when dot com was at height - clinton was easily able to sign the H1 cap increase bill.
    the issue today is housing ..but I agree many legal immigrants have brought (though I guess 60 - 70 % have not) ..and if the numbers were twice or thrice and there was unity ..then it would have been different.
    if you see the prev link about foreclosures ...say in a sub division - the average house rate is 400K. one of them goes in FC lists it for 250K the same sub div - if 3 genuine sellers want to sell and compete - then they have to bring down their prices to maybe 300K ..and hence all the house values in that Sub Division effectively comes down even 1 house buyer matters. In the end this issue will mostly be solved by increased demand ..and sizeable amt of that demand will come from immigrants.

    and if you see and analyze this link - the market will be swamped by foreclosures.


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  • shantanup
    09-29 02:33 PM
    By the next Presidential Election I will have mostly gotten my green card. I know I won't be eligible to vote then, but I will still be eligible to donate to the election campaigns. I have decided right now that whatever may happen I will donate to that party which makes my journey to the green card easier and faster.

    I also have a plan B if I don't get my green card in next 24 months. I am a chemical engineer by education and profession with a US graduate degree in chemical engineering and more than 7 years of work experience in a premium organization in the oil, gas & chemicals industry. Everyone is more than aware how good the oil, gas & chemicals industry is doing worldwide. I very well know that I am a hot commodity in the job market in the whole world. Those who have traveled on Singapore Airlines must have seen advertisements in the Singapore airport displaying that oil and gas is their largest (next to Singapore Airlines) revenue making industry and they need qualified and experienced personnel. Job advertisements in the airport? Wow! Think why Alberta is the hottest place these days. I got an invitation from Canadian Government to apply for Canadian green card, citing my occupation. Australian Government has declared Chemical Engineering as the occupation with the highest demand in Australia due to their conventional mining and metals business and now the newly found gas reserves in north and west parts of that continent. This is my plan B. I have already secured an Australian Permanent Residency and that too in 6 months time. Hats off to the highly efficient immigration department of the Australian Government. In addition I already have 3 job offers there - one each in Brisbane, Melbourne and Perth.

    I have 2 burning innovative ideas in my mind - one related to biogas and carbon credits and the other related to water desalination. I have kept both of them on hold right now until I get the US green card. I know I will work on them but not sure which country gets the benefit - USA or Australia.

    Then why am I sticking around here in the US? 1. I have a US graduate degree, 2. Both my daughters are born here and are US citizens and 3. I can't deny that I have started to put down my roots here. 24 more months and will not hesitate to quit USA and settle in Australia. It will be tough, but can't help it being forced to do it.

    P.S. Two of my friends with similar background as mine, have left for Australia for good in August this year. They have settled in Sydney. Another acquaintance with occupation related to oil & gas, has migrated to Perth.

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  • alterego
    09-27 10:39 AM
    I wish Obama wins. His team has more clarity on many issues and he has the zeal like JFK for making things happen. But, a big but - I am very concerned about our Employment Based immigration. If he gets to win (I wish he someone who want to see America regain it's global position not just with might but also being morally right), I am worried if it would be Sen. Durbin who will dictate the immigration policy.

    I wish we get some clarity in this aspect. In the economic downturn, I wish to work more than I ever did and see that US comes out of recession fast. But for that I have to be inside the country first. I have to be given a fair chance to contribute to this economy first and I need to be treated with respect and honor.

    Sen. Durbin's position on this issue and his closeness to Sen. Obama is certainly a cause for concern, however, one thing I have noticed over and over with Sen. Obama is that he is a cerebral pragmatist with a fairly decent judgement. He is not a locked in ideologue, when a rational argument is put to him he tends not to be dogmatic like the current president and instead will try to cut a deal.
    To get the support of republican moderates in any CIR legislation pro business immigration policies will need to be included in an Obama administration. No doubt the legislation will include some H1b restrictions, but they may be more open to EB visa recapture etc. That will atleast get those in the 485 queue some relief. Noone can reason with the Sen. Sessions and Rep. Kings of the congress. The same group that is so ultra conservative that they basically openly revolted with their president on numerous issues including the current economic rescue package.
    My fear with a Sen. McCain administration is that on the immigration issue, whatever his personal views, we will see another 4 yrs similar to the last 4 on immigration! He will get nowhere moving his party either. Pres. Bush is about as pro CIR as they come, he tried and tried very hard, but to no avail with the Congress. Even before the election, you can see the disagreements between McCain and the extreme right wing conservatives. Atleast with Obama, the scene will be shaken up, noone knows where it ends up, but atleast there is a chance the gridlock will be broken.


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  • Macaca
    07-08 10:48 AM
    Must an H-1B alien be working at all times? ( D&vgnextchannel=1847c9ee2f82b010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1 RCRD)

    As long as the employer/employee relationship exists, an H-1B alien is still in status. An H-1B alien may work in full or part-time employment and remain in status. An H-1B alien may also be on vacation, sick/maternity/paternity leave, on strike, or otherwise inactive without affecting his or her status.

    He received a notice of intent to denial last month. Reason being he did not have paystubs for a period of more than 6 months during 2000 and 2001. His employer at that time did not pay him even after he worked for 4 months then he took few more months to change his company(more than 180 days).

    I am not aware of any GC stage that requires all pay stubs. How did they detect missing pay stubs for 6+ months?

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  • Macaca
    02-20 10:24 AM
    From Democratic Hires of the Week (, Please send e-mail

    Democrats, who are now in demand thanks to their takeover on Capitol Hill, are shuffling jobs all over town. Bruce Andrews was stolen away from Quinn Gillespie & Associates to run the Washington office of Ford Motor Co. He will be replaced at Quinn Gillespie by Chris McCannell, former chief of staff to Rep. Joseph Crowley (D-N.Y.).

    Elsewhere, Stephen Brown left Dutko Worldwide to open the Washington office for Tesoro, an oil refining and marketing firm. R. Scott Silverthorne left the Capital One Financial's lobby shop to become vice president for government affairs of MasterCard Worldwide. And Broderick Johnson, a former chief House lobbyist for President Bill Clinton, is moving to Bryan Cave Strategies from AT&T. Johnson, one of Washington's top African American lobbyists, was pursued for weeks by several firms and was represented by superlawyer Robert Barnett.


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  • nogc_noproblem
    08-28 10:07 PM
    Married for Money:

    "It's just too hot to wear clothes today," Jack says as he stepped out of the shower. "Honey, what do you think the neighbors would think if I mowed the lawn like this?"

    "Probably that I married you for your money," she replied.

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  • validIV
    06-25 03:59 PM
    He bought his house after he got a job offer from his mentor�Ben Graham, when he could afford it. Prior to that he was renting. He purchased a five-bedroom stucco house in Omaha, where he still lives, for $31,500. Guess how much that house is worth now?

    And who was rich first and does not consider his house as an investment!


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  • bhatt
    06-07 02:03 PM
    I noticed that the $8k and $10k for California (which began in March 09) stimulus is taken by builders for their benefit. How did they do it?

    When I bought a house in March 09, the builder offered me great discounts (20k off the purchase price, interest buy down to 4.5%) and freebies (fridge, blinds, washer/dyer) so I took it. I bought the house for less than $90 per sq. ft.

    After the $8k Fed. and $10k California stimulus have passed, builders use that as their sales pitch to attract buyers and removed their previously offered discounts (some still offers discount though but offset the stimulus benefits).

    So, I believe that the builders/sellers are the real winner in the stimulus, not the buyers.

    Exactly, The realtors and the banks are too the beneficiaries for the 8k, not the buyers.
    So don't buy the house for the sake of 8k. and Don't buy the home as an investment!

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  • unitednations
    03-25 11:58 AM
    Thanks for the link. Essentially there are 2 issues here

    1. Proving that Employee - Employer relationship exists between H1 beneficiary and employer. The ability to hire, pay, supervise and fire should be demonstrated.
    In cases where it is denying, USCIS is of opinion that the employer is in contract, manpower agency and their variants.

    This is somewhat analogous to similar test done by IRS to establish emploee-employer relationship in case of independent contractors.

    Not sure if it would make much difference, but if the petition letter demonstrates that the employer has control over the employee required matters, provide equipment (laptop etc) and that employer is primarily not in manpower business, it may fly.

    2. Second issue is about need to bachelors degree and that computer programming is speciality occupation. I think there are clear precedents on this with guidance memos from USCIS agreeing that computer analyst /programmer is indeed a speciality occupation and that bachelors degree is a minimum requirement.

    I am unable to attach actual doc on this message because of size limitations. But here is summary quoting from

    "In a December 22, 2000 memorandum from INS Nebraska Service Center (NSC) Director Terry Way to NSC Adjudications Officers, NSC acknowledges the specialized and complex nature of most Computer Programming positions. The memo describes both Computer Programmers and Programmer Analysts as occupations in transition, meaning that the entry requirements have evolved as described in the above paragraph.

    Therefore, NSC will generally consider the position of Computer Programmer to be a specialty occupation. The memo draws a distinction between a position with actual programming duties (programming and analysis, customized design and/or modification of software, resolution of problems) and one that simply involves entering computer code for a non-computer related business.

    The requirements in the OOH have evolved from bachelor's degrees being generally required but 2-year degrees being acceptable; to the current situation with bachelor's degrees again being required, while those with 2-year degrees can qualify only for some lower level jobs."

    If you go back a few posts; I said that some people already have made up their minds and then they backtrack a way to justify their positions. USCIS has already made up their mind that they are now going to treat consulting companies as staffing agencies.

    Within IRS definition of emplloyer; they have added "employee leasing" as a definition of employer. It fits perfectly into staffing (essentially if a person is going through a staffing agency for placement they are pretty much considered an employee of the staffing agency.

    In common law the most critical function is who controls the work. In staffing arrangement it is the client who controls/supervises the work.

    USCIS has made up their mind that they are going to use this case on every staffing company. If a company wants to go the internal job route then they are asking for mountains of infomation; including letters from companies who have puchased the product, marketing plan, technical specificiations; even if you supply all of this infomation; they still find a way to deny.

    As I stated previously; companies/candidates will not challenge USCIS because time is on their side. If you want to challeng USCIS then you have to be clean on your side and follow all the laws perfectly which is pretty difficult for h-1b companis to do.

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  • vroapp
    04-12 03:05 PM

    08-29 10:59 AM
    A drunk walks out of a bar with a key in his hand and he is stumbling back and forth.

    A cop on the beat sees him and approaches "Can I help you sir"

    "Yessh! Ssssomebody ssstole my carrr" the man replies!

    The cop asks "Where was your car the last time you saw it "

    "It wasss on the end of thisshh key" the man replies.

    About that time the cop looks down and sees the man's weiner hanging out
    of his fly for all the world to see.

    He asks the man "Sir are you aware that you are exposing yourself "

    Momentarily confused, the drunk looks down at his crotch and without
    missing a beat, blurts out.........."Holy crap! My girlfriend's gone

    04-06 06:26 AM

    I am also looking for buying house in new jersey and as you mentioned all good places with good schools have hardly any effect from recession and housing down turn. But any way if you have to buy a house for long term then no point in waiting. The only thing bad times do to good places is value doesn't increase like it does in good times. Any suggestions on areas in New Jersey with good school and affordable (I mean something in 350-450k)? I know some very good areas where worst looking house starts at 700k which is out of scope.



    Even in good school areas the values came down but not as much as 20, 30 or 50%. In my area, houses above 500K are not selling. But i could see multiple bidders for houses that are good and attractively priced(5 to 10%) reduction. We are probably at 2004/2005 prices right now. The most encouraging thing is people are still buying.

    I live in south jersey and i know little bit about the south jersey market. I do not know much about other areas. In south jersey moorestown, mount laurel, marlton, voorhees, cherry hill are good areas to buy. Send a PM and we can discuss further about your specific requirements.

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